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Friday, July 08, 2011

ALPHA SCALE DENSITY AND RESTON by AZA

ALPHA COMMUNITY SCALE DENSITY AND RESTON by AZA

Note: Some may have seen that AZA and TMT have been playing “I post, you post” in the comment threads following somewhat unrelated posts concerning the parameters of functional density of Alpha Communities and how these densities relate to the Beta Community of Reston.

In response to TMT’s latest note I have tried to put these perspectives – clarified and updated – together in one place. I asked Prof. Risse to post it and welcomed him to edit and add notes from his perspective. Since this is all about human settlement patterns, I also asked him to alert those that review comments for violations of The Litmus Test to be especially watchful of unfounded Idea Spam and Intentional Information Sabotage.

AZA


DENSITY IN FOCUS

Following the post by Mr. Bacon on school reform, I noted:

Only when there are densities of around 30 persons per acre at the Alpha Community scale can there be efficient and effective transport alternatives that enable students to choose different educational options.

This statement is based on our understanding of the transformations that reflect 1) the end of the era of the ‘Autonomobile’ domination of settlement patterns, 2) the end of vast subsidies for dysfunctional settlement patterns, and 3) the changes in citizen settlement pattern preferences noted below.

In a later comment, TMT noted that “30 persons per acre” seemed high to him. (Most of the dialogue from his comment and my response is summarized below.)

I responded to the reference to “30 persons per acre” by noting that the original statement was “30 persons per acre AT THE ALPHA COMMUNITY SCALE.” I suggested that without a spacial quantifier, a statement on density is a meaningless abstraction. This is NOT just nit picking. Density must always be expressed in terms of quantity per some measure of area that has a specific definition.

TMT said: “I don't think this level of density is politically feasible except in selected locations.”

I responded: Of course, it is not politically (or economically) feasible (or desirable) except in specific locations. At 30 pn ac / Alpha Comm scale, even with with half the land in the County completely vacant, Fairfax County would have a holding capacity of 3.6 million citizens over 3 times the current population. Wall to wall 30 pn ac / Alpha Comm scale would put 7.2 million people in Fairfax County. Further, a wall-to-wall 30 pn ac would be a monoculture disaster.

Sustainable densities vary from Cluster to Cluster, from Neighborhood to Neighborhood, etc. The important metic is density at the Alpha Community scale.

However, the critical fact to understand in this context is that the territory within the present boundaries of Fairfax County contains not one Community but all or part of 11 or Beta Communities.

If these Beta Communities were to mature to be Alpha Communities they would have much larger populations – and all but Tysons Corner and Reston would have more Jobs – but there would also be more open land due to subdivision recycling and parcel recycling coupled with transfer of development rights and transfer of property rights.

TMT said “I believe that many current residents believe the County is already too crowded. Of course that is just my view of the dominant perception. In politics, many times perception becomes reality.”

Unfortunately ‘perception’ IS political reality until that perception is changed through education.

‘Crowding’ is an function of settlement pattern design and use. But the indicators of ‘crowding’ that most NIMBYs harp on are functions of bad design not ‘too many people.’ There is great truth in the statement:

It is not how dense you make it, it is how you make it dense.

By far the most expensive land per acre has far higher densities at Neighborhood and Village scales than are needed to have 30 persons per acre at the Alpha Community scale. In other words the market values density.

It is now becoming more and more clear that the market also values Balance and a Resilient MIX of uses.

Too often, “crowded” is just a term used to deflect the need to change. Traffic problems are thought to flow from ‘crowding’ when in fact they result from a mismatch between the pattern and density of land uses and transport system provided to achieve Mobility and Access.

Research has now demonstrated, it is also a huge mistake to believe that lower densities yields more ‘privacy’ and ‘freedom’ for citizens. This is a common myth perpetuated by those who profit from the conversion of NonUrban land to Urban land uses.

It is also a huge mistake to believe that there is a way to provide affordable and sustainable Mobility and Access to large Urban agglomerations with Larger, Private Vehicles. Prof. Risse calls this the Large, Private Vehicle Mobility Myth and has proven this point beyond a shadow of a doubt for anyone who cares to pay attention. Also see the work of the Victoria Transport Policy Institute often cited by both Bacon and Risse.

The idea that the large single Household dwelling is ‘the American dream’ is slinking away but is still prevalent enough to use to attack ‘density.’ Without informed citizens / voters, the politicians have not choice but to cave in to the irrational demand for ‘lower density and less crowding.’

Reality is dawning due to the success of a well designed Neighborhood and Village scale developments – especially near shared-vehicle system platforms – as documented by the Urban Land Institute and others.

Reality is reinforced , by the work of Richard Florida and by new research such as the 2011 National Association of Realtor’s (NAR) home buyer preference survey. This survey shows a huge swing in potential buyer attitudes from the same questions asked in 2005.

The NAR survey indicates that the majority of potential buyers want to live in places that only exist at and above 30 persons per acre at the Alpha Community Scale.

The other clear indicator of the shift in dwelling Unit preference is the continued decline of the value of Single Household Detached dwellings, especially those outside R=30.

There is a vast glut of ‘large lot Single Household Detached Dwellings’ (28 million nation-wide at last count). This is also called the OVERBUILD of too Big Houses in the Wrong Location. Prof. Risse has documented this in THE CURRENT TRAJECTORY.

WHAT ABOUT RESTON

In the density dialogue, TMT raised the example of Reston. In our view and that of many others, Greater Reston is the closest thing that Fairfax County has to a Beta Community that could easily evolve to become an Alpha Community and thus is a very good point of reference.

“Reston might be a useful example to consider. The Master Covenants limit development in Reston to 13 persons per acre overall.”

Actually it is the Residential Planned Community (RPC) zoning that sets the limit at 13 persons per acre.

In my original response I said that “the 13 person per acre ‘cap’ does not include the Town Center, the Industrial Corridor along DAAR or the outparcels and adjacent projects.”

TMT pointed out that the Town Center is zoned RPC. I had incorrect information on that fact.

What I had heard was that the Town Center development was primarily controlled by a Cordon Line traffic generation formula – perhaps that is only the non-residential uses – and that more dwellings reduced the cross-Cordon Line traffic.

The inclusion of the Town Center in the RPC zone was not central to my comments which TMT did not address.

Reston, along with every other 60s / 70s / 80s Planned New Community, was built to accommodate Large, Private Vehicles. That means to achieve a density that supports functional future settlement patterns, the density needs to move up and alternative modes of Mobility and Access need to be provided.

Perhaps EMR can fill in some details here. [EMR has added a note at the end of this post about the 13 persons per acre issue in Reston.]

The key issue is that at somewhere between 10 and 15 persons per acre Greater Reston (not just the part zoned PRC) is closer to being able to achieve Balance and thus solve the Mobility and Access Crisis, the Affordable and Accessible Housing Crisis and the Helter Skelter Crisis than any other Beta Community in Fairfax County.

One asset is an excess of jobs and another is the Affordable Housing that is the result of Bob Simon’s original commitment to have housing suitable for everyone who had a job in the Community and for a living environment every stage of a Households existence should be accommodated within Reston.

Reston is worlds ahead of the four Beta Communities in eastern Loudoun County where there are a plenty of garden apartments and townhouses but still only about 5 to 8 persons per acre at the Alpha Community scale due to failure of the County to intelligently plan (or encourage developers to intelligently plan) at the Village and Community scales as noted by NERE in his comments on the “Stop Short Changing Road Maintenance” post.

A person landing in Reston and told they need to live without a car full-time can look around and say “I can do this!” In the four Beta Communities of eastern Loudoun that person would stare into an abyss. It is a autocentric wasteland – all be it that almost every ‘community’ contains a number of desirable Clusters, some functional Neighborhoods and many individual land uses that could become parts of Alpha Communities – if only they were differently arranged.

Back to the dialogue with TMT on Reston:

TMT said “Some within the county [I think he meant ‘Reston,’ not ‘the county’] want to raise this overall limit to add substantial density in the areas near the future rail stations. From what I have observed, there is general acceptance of adding density at the rail stations, but only so long as the overall cap is maintained.”

I said: “The issue is NOT the ‘cap.’

The critical issues are Balance and Resiliency in the station-area. Given the capacity of the METRO Silver Line, the station-area should be of Village scale, not of Neighborhood scale or Community scale. That will result in being able to achieve Alpha status in the Greater Reston Community.

TMT said: “In listening to residents and leaders in Reston, I perceive that few see any benefit for themselves by increasing density beyond 13 per acre. What economic benefits would flow to existing residents to accept a higher density cap?”

Again, CAP is the wrong question. The question is Balance of J / H / S / R / A.

As for the reasons citizens should understand why it is to their benefit, see the above concerning the work of Richard Florida, the NAR study and others. Then check the trajectory of house values in those eastern Loudoun County’s Beta Communities. Without a Balance in the Village Cores, especially those at METRO stations and in the entire Community, the value of existing homes will decline. Preventing this from happening would be one big economic benefits to the existing residents and would be a good reason for them to encourage the continued evolution of functional and sustainable settlement patterns in Greater Reston.

As Dr. Risse has argued for years – before, during and after he live there (I first met him while he was living in Reston) – much of Reston is just fine for the foreseeable future so long a owners continue to invest in maintaining their properties and the Cluster Associations and the Reston Association have revenue to support their needs.

However, recycling some Clusters and some Neighborhoods would be prudent FOR ALL.

As Risse’s columns in Bacon’s Rebellion 1.0 document, the density related to the new METRO stations should be OVER and Around the Station-Platforms spanning the DAAR. There also needs to be a secondary shared-vehicle system that ties together the Village Centers and the existing Town Center.

In summary, the discussion of a 10, 13, 15 or some other number ‘cap’ is beside the point, the key issues are Balance and Resiliency.

THE BIG PICTURE

Now let me add a note in defense of NERE’s response about the future of Loudoun County in the comments following the “Stop Short Changing Road Maintenance” post.

TMT asked where NERE got his ideas:

“where is the roadmap from today's Loudoun County to one with four Alpha communities? No pun intended.”

NERE told him. It turns out there IS a roadmap and a lot of citizens understood that road map as indicated by their response at public fora in the late 90s and the candidates they voted for.

TMT then went on a tear about what EMR ought to be doing.

I have talked to him about this recently and EMR is not about to launch an new educational campaign. He has been there and done that. He clearly showed that it can be done if there are resources to support it.

It is up to leaders like TMT to establish the support to moving ahead. Citizens must be given the opportunity to become Aware of and become Interested in reality. They must then achieve Understanding and upon which to take Action if citizens are to come to well considered judgements on the path to a sustainable future.

ROCKET SCIENCE

Perhaps my perspective will help here:

There are two major differences between understanding the need to evolve functional and sustainable HUMAN SETTLEMENT PATTERNS and ROCKET SCIENCE.

First:

Understanding humans settlement patterns is much harder, and evolving functional and sustainable patterns and densities of land use is far more complex.

Second:

With respect to human settlement patterns, there is no simple chain of command which can bring together designers, fabricators and ‘deciders’ to produce, fire and reach the target (for good or evil) as there are with rockets.

ORGANIC SYSTEMS

Both of these differences are rooted in the same reality:

Human settlement patterns are organic systems. They are huge, complex systems that result from trillions of decisions by organisms that are ALSO complex organic systems (humans). The understanding of the individual human systems is still has a long ways from clarity.

Then there is this reality:

To maintain a democracy with an informed market economy to allocate resources ALL those who make the decisions that impact human settlement patterns in the market place and in the voting booth must be informed. In Groveton’s terms they must be ‘conversant’ not necessarily ‘fluent.’

(Perhaps every Cluster needs someone fluent in settlement patterns as well as someone fluent in education, someone fluent in health, someone fluent in public safety, someone fluent in communications, someone fluent in recreation, someone fluent in ecology, but EVERYONE needs to be conversant. Then must also understand how they can get answers that they can rely on from those who are fluent. Some resource persons may be at the Neighborhood or Village scales but they cannot be some remote state, federal, NATO, or UN functionary (Mr. Gooze likes to call them apparatchiks, Mr. Bacon calls them rent seeking bureaucrats and Prof. Risse calls them governance practitioners at the wrong scale of the governance structure). As Dr. Risse says in CITIZEN MEDIA, THE NEXT STEP, citizens must evolve a society that does not rely on Agents.)

THE ROLE OF CITIZENS

Long ago it became clear that one single entity cannot be responsible for making decisions on human settlement patterns.

Over the last 8,000 years the organizations created to manage the evolving human societies have changed in many ways. The evolution clearly has a long way to go. The management of civilization framework evolved slowly for 7,300 years. It started changing more rapidly after 1300. Risse lays this out nicely in THE ESTATES MATRIX. There was ‘1492 And All’ (See Guns, Germs and Steel) that stepped up the rate of change. The transformations were kicked into high gear around 1775.

There have been many paths to the current reality. In Western societies one can trace the shared responsibility for decisions on settlement pattens with some ease:

Inside The Clear Edge the responsibility to determine human settlement patterns was extended beyond the dominate chief, priest, prince, king or emperor by the granting of charters to create Urban enclaves (at that time correctly called ‘cities’)

Outside The Clear Edge it is more complex. In the English speaking Regions (lawyers like to say “in the Anglo-American Legal Tradition”) there were two separate paths. First, there was ‘The Common Law’ for private property and second, the ever evolving Law of the Forest (first articulated 1215) for common lands that were primarily crown property.

Unless and until citizens learn about the process and the alternatives to create functional human settlement patterns and to take action on those strategies, humans will struggle in a forest of myths and misunderstandings.

It may be acceptable for citizens to be ignorant about rocket science, molecular biology or celestial mechanics BUT

Humans must come to understand – for themselves, their Households, their Organizations and their the communities to which the belong at ALL scales – about 1) human heath, 2) human safety, 3) successfully raising the next generation of humans (education, et. al.), 4) the parameters of human happiness AND 5) human settlement patterns.

It is clear that citizens cannot rely on Agents or Politicians to make decisions for them if they expect to achieve a sustainable trajectory for civilization.

That may seem like a big task but the alternative is, as Jared Diamond says, Collapse.

AZA


EMR’s Note on Reston density

Ed Prichard (Edgar Allen Prichard – Booth, Prichard and Dudley, 1920-2000) drafted PRC zone category to meet Bob Simon’ objectives. (As most readers of BRB 2.0 know, Bob was the original developer of Reston.) Ed did a great job of meeting Bob’s needs. There were two major obstacles to Bob achieving his goals for Reston: The DAAR though middle of the parcel that Bob bought and Bob lost control to Gulf Oil Co early on. See Reston, the First Twenty Years for all the details.

In spite of these and other problems Reston has evolved to be a great place to live, work and seek services. EMR lived there for a decade before moving to a Planned New Community in which he had participated in the design.

EMR used the RPC zone in the development of the Village scale Burke Centre. The RPC zone worked well at that scale. The developer kept tabs of the ‘people pool’ as the project developed. The number of allowable dwellings (the metric that developers, builders and Households are concern with) changed every time the Census Bureau changed the number of people per dwelling unit. In the US and in Virginia, the number of people per dwelling unit declined from 1960 to 2005. It has since started back up and may go much higher due to the overbuild of ‘too- big’ dwellings.

An overarching problem with most municipal plans and most zoning, including the RPC zone, is that it is assumed that once a place is ‘built out’ it will not change. In most cases when change is needed one applies to change the zoning. It appears that this has not happened in the RPC zone because so much depends on the general and final plans required in the multi-phased RPC process. A static RPC may be tolerable at the Village scale but not at the Community scale. Communities must continue to evolve as the last ten years in Reston document.

In addition, once most of the land is developed there is no ‘developer’ to manage the RPC zone.

As EMR has said for years, Reston needs a new plan and a new plan process before it can evolve to become an Alpha Community. The idea that there is an immutable ‘cap’ is a product of poor strategy and a misunderstanding of organic system health.

There is one other question about which EMR has no information. Where did Ed Prichard come up with the 13 persons number? As documented in THE SHAPE OF THE FUTURE no developer of any Planned New Community in the US who had to pay for most of the costs of creating the Community designed or built a Community of less than 10 persons per acre. This is the 10 Person Rule, one of the Five Natural Laws of Human Settlement Patterns laid out in THE SHAPE OF THE FUTURE. Ten persons per acres is about what 13 persons per acre RPC zone yielded when the land along the DAAR, outparcels and adjacent land is figured in. Reston was a pioneer Planned New Community and Prichard came up with that number before Reston or any of the others were planned beyond the rough conceptual sketch phase, much less built.

Long story, short: AZA is right about the cap issue. The critical issues are Balance and Resiliency. The 30 persons per acre at the Alpha Community scale makes a lot of sense as a target for those who do not want to live in the Zentrum of a large New Urban Region and not have to rely on the Autonomobile for Mobility and Access.

EMR

38 comments:

  1. To point out a couple of things.

    The 3202 UDA law actually requires jurisdictions with more than 130,000 in population to designate 8du or higher for 10 years worth of projected growth.

    The UDA law also requires the locality to ENTERTAIN developer proposals that meet or exceed that threshold.

    The UDA law is MUTE on what level and mode of transportation should be part of such proposals nor what mode but 8du is from what I understand the minimum threshold needed to provide cost-effective non-auto transit.

    8du, by the way usually manifests itself as 2-3 person per du so 8du is getting close to the 30 person per acre idea.

    But here is the economic hitch.

    first no one can make a developer "propose" anything. that developer has to believe that he can make a profit at building an 8du or higher development that will sell at market prices.

    so govt cannot "decree" development - they can only enable it... and even then if there is no viable market for the 8du+ product, the developer is not going to go broke trying to provide it.

    2. - who will pay for the transportation infrastructure even if the developer can build a viable
    development?

    these are the political and economic realities that the alpha theory runs into.

    give Kaine and the folks who voted for 3202 - credit - they did what they thought was a better approach.

    but they did not have benefit as far as I know of what EMR advocates because, as far as I know, there were no advocates involved when 3202 UDA law was written.

    but that's the way change has to take place.

    You'd have to have an approach like Stewart Schwartz's Coalition for Smarter Growth to have an approach, be able to defend it, and to show how it puts us on a more sustainable path.

    Little did anyone suspect the little known part of 3202 - the 527 VDOT review would come into play so effectively in Loudon and Fairfax Counties.

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  2. The planned community emr helped design appears to ne a collection of large homes on cul-de-sacs. The nearest community business appears to be a far lot or the hospital. The community is wedged between a commercial strip and a large farm, evidently a prosperous one with double fences. There appears to be a large estate nearby as well. Who was the developer?

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  3. Anon 5:16

    This appears to be a inaccurate and uninformed description of the Planned Unit Development where Prof. Risse and his wife bought an existing house. He had nothing to do with the design or development of the property. This question appears to have nothing to do with the post and is solely intended to make him look like a fool. If you have a comment or question related to the post you are welcome comment or pose that question.

    TRC

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  4. What happened to my post? It was there earlier.

    TMT

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  5. Jim,

    I spent about 20 minutes providing comments on EMR's post, which I took as a compliment. Who removed it? Why are substantive posts being removed?

    TMT

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  6. Larry, in today's fauquier paper the authorites rejected two 500 home developments on account of what they called excess density. I beloved another plan was also rejected recently.

    How long can they continue this before the state steps in and says " you must allow higher density"

    Likewise, it appears the feds may over rule local zoning by mandating higher cell towers.

    What are your thoughts?

    I think Fauquier has an 80 ft limit, which I think is silly, and inconvenient. Many sailboat masts are 50 to 60 feet, just for comparison. An ordinary poplar tree is easily 80 feet.

    My cell tower is less than a mile away, but the signal is seriously degraded in summer when the heavy foliage interferes.

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  7. I'd have to check the UDA law but Facquier may be below the threshold that requires UDA designation.

    but keep in mind - again - that the UDA law only requires that an area be designated as one in which the elected will ENTERTAIN proposals.

    there is NO requirements to approve proposals.

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  8. by the way - we are posting from the town of Nanaimo which looks for all the world to be just as auto-centric as most US towns of the same size.

    Tomorrow we head for Victoria ... and will report back on that settlement pattern.....

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  9. TMT, I don't know how your comment got removed. Perhaps it was the fault of the Blogger software. Perhaps it got deleted accidentally. Perhaps it was deleted deliberately. I give the author of each original post the right to delete comments to that post but I have no way of tracking what EMR, Peter or Groveton do.

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  10. My point is that 1) fauquier has already designated service districts where growth is to be directed 2) planners uniformly seem opposed to any and all development proposals, 3) this is often manifested in demands for LESS density and outlandish proffers of open space, to the point that developers walk away, 4) the process appears to be one of government by aggravation, obfuscation, and delay.

    If education is the issue, as emr claims, it is the officials and some special interests that need more education, not the developers.

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  11. If the feds get involved in cell towers, how long before other zoning issues make it to the courts.

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  12. TMT:

    Sorry to get to this late, EMR has been out of the office.

    I can personally guarantee you that I nor anyone who has volunteered to key an eye out for Idea Spam and Intentional Information Sabotage pursuant to The Litmus Test saw or deleted your post.

    Mysterious disappearances happened quite often a few months ago. EMR saw a comment of his disappear six times in a row. After a half an hour the same comment suck.

    Some ‘Service Not Available’ windows suggest that the Google servers may have been overloaded in recent days.

    At any rate, I am sorry we did not see your comment and hope you can reconstruct it. It is always safest to compose in a note pad and then post.

    Look forward to hearing from you.

    EMR

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  13. Sorry to hear of TMTs problems.

    The site seems slow today. Maybe they know Mr. Bacon is going away...

    By the way, here is a perfect example of why one cannot believe anything Hydra says:

    First he anonymously plants a negative description of where Professor Risse has lived since 2002. See Anon 5:16 above.

    Next a note is posted by TRC, at 5:30 pointing out that this was a hack job by someone who cannot read settlement patterns. It intentionally misrepresents land uses and land use relationships. Geographic Illiteracy on parade. The 5:16 poster does not know what he is looking at. No wonder he has no idea what he is talking about.

    Hydra then posts a comment that has apparently since been deleted by someone on the review committee:

    "Reston has evolved to be a great place to live, work and seek services. EMR lived there for a decade before moving to a Planned New Community in which he had participated in the design. "

    Which is it? He participated in the design or not?

    As he would have known if he had read the Bio he panned in a prior post he would know that Dr. Risse lived in Reston from 1980 to 1988 and in the North Village of Fairfax Center from 1988 to 2002.

    Risse has explained his reasons for moving to his current residence in a PUD inside The Clear Edge around the Town of Warrenton on many occasions.

    In addition, Hydra then he had to gall to repeat the same negative misinformation that was posted anonymously at 5:16 before.

    Hydra has no compunction about distorting facts just to bait and humiliate Risse.

    He would have a nice home in the Rupert Murdoch family of news outlets.

    And a note for Larry:

    Sounds like a great trip. You will enjoy Victoria.

    While you are in the area stop by Vancouver. Take a ride on their shared-vehicle systems. See what they did with the Olympic Village, stop by the planning office and get some idea of what planning for functional Urban fabric is all about.

    Also you may have missed CJCs question about Interstate system conditions after you posted your report on poor asphalt conditions.

    Happy trails.

    AZA

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  14. re: Facquier - localities have the authority to decide the intensity and scope of land-use relative to their ability to provide services and levy taxes to support it.

    Facquier is an extreme case, I agree but no jurisdiction in Va is required to accept any proposal from any developer but they ARE required to act on it in 60 days I believe.

    re: Victoria and Vancouver.

    from the border guard: " Vancouver is just a big city - go to Victoria".

    Indeed on the approach from the East to Vancouver - 60 miles out the auto traffic started to pick up incredibly as well as roads and no shared vehicle systems out there just SUVs, mini-vans and pickup trucks.

    Gasoline is 1.20 to 1.40 per LITER!
    but there is no shortage of cars and a hefty number of 8 mpg RVs.

    one more - govt (Provincial) campgrounds in Canada have no showers and the commercial campgrounds charge a dollar per shower!

    only about 10% of the American campgrounds charge for showers - using a quarter or so.

    result: no waiting for the shower!

    amazing how that works...... I'm sure Ray will consider such "tolling" as sacrilege!

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  15. Change in government structure. I would not argue that today's governmental structure is ideal. I don't know the answer, but acknowledge the possibility EMR's view might work better than what we have today. Or it might not. I don't know.

    But the point is moot. There will be no paradigm-changing changes in government structure in the foreseeable future. Even minor changes in government are virtually impossible. For example, a significant number of Reston citizens would like to become a town in order have more control over their destiny. They would control local roads and would have control over zoning and land use. Reston has made no progress to this goal; the status quo is being maintained by those who like it and by inertia.

    The Town of Vienna would like to move from Hunter Mill to Providence because it believes it has more in common with nearby communities in Providence than in Hunter Mill and that the HM supervisor is too focused on Reston matters. A plan to accomplish this was submitted to the Board of Supervisors this winter, but was simply ignored.

    Major changes in government structure are not going to occur. We would achieve more progress by assuming the status quo for government structure and concentrating on how change might occur within today's structure.

    TMT

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  16. Another post has disappeared.

    TMT

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  17. TMT:

    Sorry you are having a problem posting. Blogger is very slow. Hope to see more of your ideas soon.

    On Fundamental governance system Transformation:

    Two good examples. Vienna is in Hunter Mill because Martha P. used to live there. Do not get me started on whether she helped or hurt Reston...

    Your are right about the current stalemate. I hope it changes before it turns violent. The more blogs, Enterprise media et al polarize and misinform citizens, the longer it will be before a consensus will evolve.

    I am sorry there is not a single comment on the substance of AZA’s post. She spent a lot of time on it. I am proud that a former student can retain and understand so much since she is now a respected professional in another field.

    AZA is right about Vancouver, the border guard is not.

    EMR

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  18. "AZA is right about Vancouver, the border guard is not."

    all I can tell you is that 50 miles out from Vancouver on a Friday evening headed IN to the city - the traffic was bumper-to-bumper and reminded me ever so much of rush hour traffic in NoVa.

    That's a reality not an impression.

    Vancouver has the same problem that NoVa has - exurbs.....cars.... and no shared vehicle systems between the exurbs and Vancouver.

    I think it is important here to separate out the myths from the realities.

    there is nothing magical or different from Vancouver than NoVa in a lot of respects.

    So advocating that NoVa be more like Vancouver is not any kind of reasonable approach to "change" since both areas have so many of the auto-centric characteristics in common with each other anyhow.

    the most amazing thing to me is that even with gasoline costing $5 a gallon - the cars are still ubiquitous!

    It would be interesting to compare the two with regard to how many in scope and scale each has in "balanced" places.

    What would be especially cool would be for EMR's former students to create a geographic depiction of NoVa with the "balance" pods and similar maps of other urban areas - such as Vancouver AND Victoria AND Seattle!

    How about it?

    you do have folks here willing to listen and to dialogue.. perfect opportunity to make further points.

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  19. It is amusing that Hydra is becoming more and more frantic as it dawns on him that the tide is running out on his dream of making a fortune from scattering Urban land uses on NonUrban land.

    The core problem is that he is so uninformed that he does not know what he does not know. He has almost complete Geographic Illiteracy with respect to Urban settlement patterns. And he still apparently cannot understand that Dr. Risse did not move from Reston to Warrenton but live for 14 years in a Planned New Community (Fairfax Center) that he helped plan and in a Neighborhood and Custer he had major responsibility in the planning, design, building and management.

    Hydra has had none of that experience.

    The PUD where Dr. Risse now lives has townhouses and small lot singles, it is a PUD because there is a mix of dwelling types, common land and a pathway system. The detached dwellings are adjacent to The Clear Edge. The pathway system links to many places where one can get Services – not just a Hospital with a nice café and many doctors offices but also a police station with a public meeting room. There are also accessible and office building, a lumber yard - hardware store as well as a laundry, a deli, a vet, 7-11, and perhaps 15 other retail and other Services. (I know this because I made a smart ass remark the first time I drove to the house and have since checked it out.)

    Dr. Risse has made it clear he has no time to talk to those who do not take the time to try to understand what he is saying.

    The good professor has asked all of us numerous times not to bother to respond to unfounded attacks. This is my last comment on this topic.

    ACSGP

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  20. EMR - I have spent at least 45 minutes responding to AZA's points, agreeing with some and disagreeing with others, in two posts. Both times, I received the message that my entry had been saved and the post appeared. Coming back later, both posts on the same subject had disappeared.

    TMT

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  21. TMT:

    I have had problems too. I suspect that it is due to the moving from one URL to another and or an overloaded server.

    I suspect each account has a quota of activities. That is the case with my hosts.

    If you send an email, I will see AZA gets the material.

    Sorry for your troubles!!

    EMR

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  22. Tmt

    Since this format change I get two comment blocks. The first one is a new style that never works. I type a couple of characters and hit post comment. Then the regular comment block appears, land jot woraks untilled I fall the litmus test and get deleted.

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  23. TMT, Your experience is one of the reasons I am migrating from Blogger to WordPress. I would urge you -- and everyone else -- to carry on the dialogue under the same post over at www.baconsrebellion.com. Hopefully, the comment software there is functioning properly.

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  24. I just posted on the other blog site.

    TMT

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  25. I submit we are beyond the pale. My responsive post on the new blogsite has disappeared.

    TMT

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  26. TMT, you post is live on the new website. WordPress made me approve it before it went live.

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  27. we're STARTING to get some more meaningful dialog on the issue not without some continued whacking on individuals ( not good ) but I hope we can continue to sort out the pros and cons of the density conundrum.

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  28. I've still got one on the new site "awaiting moderation"....

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  29. TMT:

    EMR saw your comment on the other site.

    We understand that AZA is traveling abroad. She bit off a big chunk with the density post. Her effort is to be admired and, to the best of our knowledge, on target.

    Frankly, EMR has no idea how to help you. You keep defaulting to the ‘infrastructure’ argument without grasping the fundamentals of scale or density.

    As AZA noted evolving functional human settlement patterns is much more complex that rocket science.

    As to how do Agencies (‘government’) ‘control’ the evolution? The Agency does not.

    The Agency responsibility is to create a general sketch plan such at the oft cited Henry Wright Plan. This sketch lays out broad Regional and SubRegional patterns of land uses, the locations of major natural systems and the location of major Urban agglomerations including the logical locations of the Clear Edges around NUR Cores.

    AZA suggested (and I agree) these should be targeted at 30 persons per acre at the Alpha Community scale. If they work at other scales that is fine, let the Development Entity demonstrate that.

    Since there is already more land devoted to Urban land use than will be needed for the foreseeable future (both in the Cores of New Urban Regions and in the Urban agglomerations of all scales in the Countryside) the keys will be:

    1. How to rebuild and how to Un-Urbanize land, and

    2. Who pays for what – how the costs are fairly allocated.

    Once the Regional and SubRegional Sketch Plans are approved via democratic processes it is up to the Development Entity – Enterprise, Enterprise / Agency (aka, ‘public private partnership) or Agency – to come up with plans to implement (or change) the plans. Sorry to have to repeat this, it is all spelled out in TRILO-G.

    Back to the question “How do Agencies (‘government’) ‘controls’ the evolution?” and the answer: “The Agency does not.”

    This part is simple. The Development Entity (E, E/A or A) submits a phased plan and GUARANTEES Balance to achieve Critical Mass. That guarantee of Balance is evaluated against results in Phase 1 before Phase 2 is started and for each phase until completion, they the process starts over because Urban fabric is NEVER done evolving.

    This phase by phase process is just an application of the Cordon Line concept that now controls traffic generation in at least three places in Fairfax County. In this case it is applied to J / H / S / R / A Balance. This phase by phase process is how the 13 pn per acre limit in the PRC zone was applied via Sketch Plans, Preliminary Development Plans and Final Development Plans for each phase of a PRC project.

    Development Entities ALWAYS try to push the costs off to others and this is why there must be functional governance structures that EMR says are necessary and the transparency that Jim Bacon champions.

    The phase by phase process plus the requirement of a Next Higher Component plan for every project regardless of scale is the way to insure the result is the best possible for all parties.

    Note: Vocabulary is important in understanding any complex process.

    EMR hope that a process similar to this one is the way Greater Richmond NUR, Henrico County and the Innsbrook that project Jim Bacon described on the other site will be managed.

    Hope this helps. If not there is little EMR can do to make it more clear.

    EMR

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  30. EMR - I think we will always be two ships passing in the night. I am where I am on infrastructure after about 5 years of working on Tysons Corner redevelopment; talking with developers, county and state officials and employees. I have also dealt with utility construction issues for about 30 years plus.

    There clearly is some advantage for building infrastructure in dense urban locations. It would be much less expensive, for example, to build pipes to serve 100,000 people in Washington, D.C. than to serve 100,000 in Washington County, MD. It would be much less expensive to operate bus service in Fairfax County to serve 1000 people than it would be to operate bus service in and around Fairfax, Minnesota. Do we agree on this?

    But it often takes a lot less infrastructure to build houses outside the clear edge from empty fields than it would be to build condos or apartments in a dense urban area. You just don't need the same amount of things in outlying areas as you in urban areas. Land and construction costs are much higher in urban areas.

    Take a look at Table 7 in the new Tysons Comp Plan. The price tag is at least $1.7 billion. Based on my knowlege and experience, I just don't see that sprawl comes with a $17 billion price tag as does Tysons.

    TMT

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  31. Two problems here TMT:

    First you have again defaulted to the faulty infrastructure argument and two what about all the rest of the material in the AZA density post?

    First: TMT said:

    “EMR - I think we will always be two ships passing in the night.”

    I hope not.

    “I am where I am on infrastructure after about 5 years of working on Tysons Corner redevelopment; talking with developers, county and state officials and employees. I have also dealt with utility construction issues for about 30 years plus.”

    But have your ever been responsible for the design and construction of projects of Village or Community scale?

    “There clearly is some advantage for building infrastructure in dense urban locations.”

    How “dense?” What density? In dus or pn at what scale area?

    “It would be much less expensive, for example, to build pipes ...

    Which “pipes?”

    “... to serve 100,000 people in Washington, D.C. than to serve 100,000 in Washington County, MD.”

    Depends on what ‘pipes’ and what the density / area covered. The Federal District has a lot of very old ‘pipes.’ You always talk about the cost in Fairfax where the pipes are newer and built to better standards.

    “It would be much less expensive to operate bus service in Fairfax County to serve 1000 people than it would be to operate bus service in and around Fairfax, Minnesota. Do we agree on this?”

    I know what you are trying to get at but Fairfax, Minn is a bad example. It has about 1,200 citizens and is very compact on a nice grid. Sorry.

    “But it often takes a lot less infrastructure to build houses...”

    By “houses” do you mean SHD dwellings which is what is usually build on Green Field sites or condos and apartments so you are comparing apple and apples?

    “... outside The Clear Edge from empty fields than it would be to build condos or apartments in a dense urban area.”

    Two big problems here:

    If you mean SHD vs condos and apartments the answer is NO on a square foot basis or on a per unit basis, especially if your are recycling an old subdivision with some trunk facilities.

    In either case (SHD vs condos and apartments OR condos and apartments vs condos and apartments) if ALL the location variable costs are fairly distributed then the answer is NO.

    This is the 10 Person Rule.

    This is the reason Bob Simon wanted to build 13 pn acre. No one in the US has bought 10,000 acres and build 10,000 dwellings, not Levitt, no one. If you are building less that at Community scale there are a huge number of ‘externalities’ that the Development Entity gets away without paying for.

    End Part One

    EMR

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  32. Part Two

    The reason small parts (orphan Dooryards, orphan Clusters aka, “subdivisions”) can be built cheaper is that the Development Entity DOES NOT PAY THE FULL COSTS.

    The developer takes advantage of unused capacity (e.g. ‘farm to market roads’ or existing public and private Services – ‘Services is a term of art defined in GLOSSARY) or pushes the cost off onto others – existing residents, various Agencies and future buyers. This includes the value of Services the future resident never gets because it would cost too much.

    That is why a SHD three blocks from Clarendon METRO costs $975 k and one three miles form west nowhere (lets say the Jeffersonton Post Office that is the same size with a bigger yard cost $275 k – and dropping.

    “You just don't need the same amount of things in outlying areas as you in urban areas.”

    You do if you want to compare apples and apples.

    “Land ...”

    Land cost more because it is worth more. On the SubRegional scale that is in large part because zoning made it more valuable by spreading out Urban fabric.

    “... and construction costs are much higher in urban areas.”

    Not necessarily and not just because of the location outside The Clear Edge or on recycled land. That depends on unions, codes, competition and lots of other things.

    “Take a look at Table 7 in the new Tysons Comp Plan. The price tag is at least $1.7 billion. Based on my knowledge and experience, I just don't see that sprawl comes with a $17 billion price tag as does Tysons.”

    First, I would not trust the Tysons numbers for the reasons you and I agreed on five years ago.

    Second the two numbers would be comparable if the same Services (again that is a term of art defined in GLOSSARY) were provided.

    Hope that helps

    On the second item:

    What about all the other points AZA raised in her summary of density and Reston?

    By the way we sent a copy to Tom Grubisich. As you know Tom was a WaPo reporter who was a resident of Reston from near the beginning, the Cofounder, editor and publisher of the Reston Connection and later of the Connection chain of papers. He is also the co-author of the Reston, the First Twenty Years. Few know more about Reston that he does.

    He was very complementary of the AZA item and suggested among other things that the 13 pn cap way a red herring.

    Enough for now.

    EMR

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  33. EMR - I think it is time for us to agree to disagree on infrastructure costs. I think my position, which does not disagree with yours in all circumstances, is reasonably correct.

    The costs for Table 7 of the new Comp Plan for Tysons are probably understated. We've seen costs skyrocket for Dulles Rail, and the HOT lanes costs are higher than originally projected.

    I also believe a push to increase density in Reston above an average of 13 persons per acre will be strongly resisted and no one would accept 30 persons per acre except in TOD locations, and then with many conditions. I don't think Fairfax County officials would vote for those levels of density either. For example, Sharon Bulova has indicated on a number of occasions that she feels urban growth should be restricted to a few chosen sites and the suburban lifestyle in other areas needs to be protected.

    But if we all agreed on everything, this blog would be very dull.

    Cheers,
    TMT

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  34. Having recently visited Victoria and Seattle, I can report that there are LOTS of people ...and LOTS of density in those locations and LOTS of TRANSIT, pedestrians and bikes ...and additionally - LOTs of cars and LOTS of places where they park and that is a reality than cannot be denied.

    and that is at least one of the infrastructure issues with Tysons if not the central issue.

    Density and walking, biking and transit do not do away with the car as the mobility of choice when people cannot get there on foot, bike or transit in the timeframe they need/want to.

    I have, so far, in my travels, yet to see a place where the auto was not prominent no matter how dense it was but the car does did to become counterproductive in areas where they are a lot of people on foot - such as downtown Victoria and Seattle which are very difficult to drive in because there are so many people on foot and on bikes....

    perhaps that is what EMR alludes to but I point out also that in both of these places - there are STILL roads and STILL much parking for autos... the auto is not banned even in these densest places which I'm quite sure are more than 30 people to the acre.

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  35. It is not enough to focus on one aspect of EMR’s work – e.g. the need for Balance in the METRO station area, although that is a good place to start.

    The real foundation of this work is the overarching Conceptual Frameworks such as the reality that human settlement patterns from the Dooryard to the planet are complex organic systems, the five Natural Laws, etc.

    For example in TMT’s Fairfax, Minn example. With the street layout in Fairfax, Minn – See Google Earth – one could design the bus system to make a figure eight that would get within two blocks of almost every resident (origin) and at the doorstep of every destination in Fairfax. (You would also need a jitney / car rental to get to Redwood Falls and a shuttle / car rental to get to the Twin Cities but that is another story.)

    In Fairfax County you could either serve 1,000 origins – by going into a lot of dead end subdivisions – Or you could serve a few of the widely scattered destinations. There is no way to serve 1,000 or 1,000,000 citizens with a bus system in Fairfax County.

    That is what is meant by dysfunctional human settlement pattern.

    That is why the Alpha (Balanced) Community and the Alpha (Balanced) Village station areas are so important.

    You have to grasp the whole picture before any of it makes much sense.

    I too would like to hear TMTs response to all the other points that AZA made in the original post.

    ACSGP

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  36. Larry:

    In order to see non-auto oriented development you will have to get out of your car.

    Seattle is a notorious auto-centric place.

    You should have gone to Vancouver, parked at the end of a Sky Train Line and then visited some of the stations like Olympic Village and Waterfront.

    While in Victoria did you visit The Victoria Transport Policy Institute?

    In the meantime here is a link to a great NYT story about what you could see in Europe.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/science/earth/27traffic.html?hp

    I still do not have an answer on my question concerning the pattern of Interstate wear and tear.

    CJC

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  37. CJC = we did get out and walk in Victoria and it was a pleasure because the prioritized mode is ped/bike but even in downtown Seattle... ped/bike is very apparent but my point is that in
    BOTH places - the auto ALSO is very apparent though much less so in Victoria.

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  38. "I still do not have an answer on my question concerning the pattern of Interstate wear and tear"

    I think I missed it...ask it again.

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